tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post629713573964943699..comments2015-08-13T13:23:23.270-04:00Comments on That's a Terrible Idea: Air Units in land-based RTSesmotstandethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06296441082624422375noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-38579540324924537292013-08-07T19:03:49.247-04:002013-08-07T19:03:49.247-04:00I know I'm really late to the party but... Wha...I know I'm really late to the party but... What about helicopters? they fly at a reasonable speed usually. Have the ability to hover. The only thing I could see wrong with them is that in some games (CnC Generals) They re-arm missiles in the air and have infinite cannon ammo. But other than that... I like air power, but I would like to see it changed slightly, To make units more useful. Such as air superiority units, you never seem to need them...Kodasa Sinclairnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-43017855864881367232010-08-04T03:48:22.862-04:002010-08-04T03:48:22.862-04:00My opinion.
I might have gotten carried away...<a href="http://www.lostinneurons.com/2010/08/air-units-in-starcraft-2.html" rel="nofollow">My opinion.</a><br /><br />I might have gotten carried away...Klelithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08767894442677973716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-21519090208490035162010-08-02T07:56:59.621-04:002010-08-02T07:56:59.621-04:00hearts of Iron is on an appropriate scale for '...hearts of Iron is on an appropriate scale for 'realistic' air units to make sense, so this post doesn't particularly apply to it.evizaerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09836136474835816824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-61242429804562722742010-08-02T04:17:33.096-04:002010-08-02T04:17:33.096-04:00I like how the Hearts of Iron series treats air un...I like how the Hearts of Iron series treats air units. By themselves, they are a mere nuisance (unless the enemy tech level is vastly higher than your own; say with Mongolia trying to fight Nazi Germany after your big brother Soviet Union already fell ... but then you have way bigger problems than just air superiority). They also require some level of concentration - mostly along the lines of naval air power (naval bombers and carrier air groups), strategical bombers and tactical bombers, with a healthy mix of fighter or interceptor power mixed in. However, used in combination with other factors, they can turn the tide quite easily.<br /><br />Naval air power reins supreme (as it does in real life), but is a late-game tech and requires heavy investment; also, the carriers by themselves are sitting ducks without proper support ships. Strategic bombing can cripple your enemy's economy, but is a long term strategy and requires a good defensible position for your country; not every nation has the time and possibility to use it (Great Britain being the prime example, of course). Tactical air power is a great addition to land based combat, turning even battles into easy wins, shielding your own troop's movements while making enemy troop's deployment and - especially - retreat a costly affair. Then there are the paratroopers of course, which can be a mixed bag (as real-life operations Mercury and Market Garden showed).Akjoschnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-41586894741357792192010-08-01T12:31:32.223-04:002010-08-01T12:31:32.223-04:00Mot, I didn't say that there can't be air ...Mot, I didn't say that there can't be air units in a competitive RTS. I'm just outlining how to keep air an interesting strategic possibility in a land-based RTSes without basically turning it into ground units that ignore terrain. Starcraft games have always been in the "ground units that ignore terrain" shop--I think that style is much less interesting than the CoH off-map call-in style.evizaerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09836136474835816824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-74951398973960315812010-08-01T12:16:44.516-04:002010-08-01T12:16:44.516-04:00RTSs are more abstract strategy than they are war ...RTSs are more abstract strategy than they are war simulator. Air units are simply units that can bypass terrain. But that does not mean they are uninteresting or strategically defunct. <br /><br />StarCraft does 'abstract war game' really well. Look at a competitive StarCraft or SC2 replay/shoutcast. You'll see air units get used as main unit composition, surprise harassment, or counters. Sometimes they are only viable for a small timeframe (using Corsairs to kill Overlords in SC), and when the opponent catches up (Hydralisks), the player transitions to something else (High Templar). As you say, they are really just ground units with special abilities. <br /><br />Realistic air artillery strikes are not needed to make SC(2) a fun and competitive game.motstandethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06296441082624422375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-81115071479620201202010-07-31T16:32:41.861-04:002010-07-31T16:32:41.861-04:00Total Annihilation (and by extension, Supreme Comm...Total Annihilation (and by extension, Supreme Commander) tried to resolve the problem by making air units fast and fragile and air defense inaccurate and plentiful. The default AI of air units caused them to align themselves with the target, speed towards it, fire while flying past it and looping around for an another run. Because this behavior required a lot of space, any plane attacking a base was bound to take at least some damage if the base had any air defense at all. In other words, air defense was meant as a soft counter: Air units were still useful, but equal-value air defense would eventually prevail.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the designers forgot to implement collisions/collision avoidance for aircraft. For land/water units, group size quickly becomes a restraining factor. 100 tanks is only going to cause a traffic jam (especially if there's a chokepoint), leaving the tanks at the rear unable to fire at the enemy. By comparison, all 100 planes would be able to take a shot at the enemy, usually killing it with alpha damage alone. Crafty players could even force the aircraft to stack on top of each other, minimizing the group's footprint and thus vulnerability to air defense.<br /><br />I would love to see an implementation where having more than X air units in an area would incur diminishing returns: The pilots would either have difficulties clearing a path for a bombing run and thus reduce their DPS, or would just crash into other planes or even terrain.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00178860601734528122noreply@blogger.com