tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post95025559285304539..comments2015-08-13T13:23:23.270-04:00Comments on That's a Terrible Idea: Themepark MMO Triviality and Meaninglessness (Pt. 2)motstandethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06296441082624422375noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-3396674363328999932010-01-27T20:26:51.356-05:002010-01-27T20:26:51.356-05:00Themepark MMOs can't have substantial difficul...<i>Themepark MMOs can't have substantial difficulty.</i><br /><br />But they already do, don't they? WoW had very difficult high end raids at launch. Guild Wars has always had skill-based PvP. Puzzle Pirates has mini-games that are very much a test of skill, and I believe you have to be pretty good at them to achieve the highest ranking. Even Wizard 101 has some difficult content.<br /><br />I know there is a popular trend right now toward skill-free MMOs, but it's not clear that themeparks *have* to be that way.Tolthirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08186401981818820178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-46920362837543221922010-01-27T13:21:04.654-05:002010-01-27T13:21:04.654-05:00Evi, suppose you nail procedural content generatio...Evi, suppose you nail procedural content generation and it is genuinely engaging and interesting content - still how do you combat content evasion that's practiced by many on a daily basis?<br /><br />I think going back to player motivation and getting that sorted out is much more important in the first place.Kennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06250677802223077326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-59960479566423131512010-01-27T12:01:13.514-05:002010-01-27T12:01:13.514-05:00Themepark MMOs can't have substantial difficul...Themepark MMOs can't have substantial difficulty. Substantial difficulty would drive away players. There is no real solution to the problems I'm pointing out--the only thing devs can do is find ways to make better content faster. This could mean partial procedural generation. This could also mean content that seems to effect the world directly. <br /><br />I'm not asking for substantial difficulty in themepark MMOs. I'm exploring the results of this limitation. The results are not good.<br /><br />I'm not trying to create a game that will be infinitely playable and I'm certainly not holding themepark MMOs to such a ridiculous standard. No matter what you do, a game will wear. There is only so much a player can learn in any given game; there is only so much fun a player can extract from a game. Once they've learned everything, they're going to grow bored and leave--it's a matter of finding better ways to generate interesting stuff for the player to learn. The themepark model is not as good at this as sandboxes could potentially be.evizaerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09836136474835816824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-79164505982278147932010-01-27T11:17:18.093-05:002010-01-27T11:17:18.093-05:00There's a big problem with this. Eventually, y...There's a big problem with this. Eventually, you cannot increase relative difficulty to force players to engage deeper into the mechanics. It may be because of two factors:<br /><br />1. The game isn't robust enough to have endless permutations or tactical play.<br /><br />2. The players as a majority plateau way below the ability to engage in it.<br /><br />2 is the more important one. If you keep increasing the relative difficulty, and your game system is complex, very few people will reach high levels of play. This can work in some games played idly-chess is one where most players suck at it, and are happy at engaging it at a basic or intermediate level. But it's not those players who pay monthly fees for online chess.<br /><br /><b>Strategic Richness-Genuine Difficulty-Player Skill Exhaustion-Game abandonment/Shift to Idle Play.</b><br /><br />To borrow your usage. Most sub-based games aren't willing to accept that.Dbladenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-42761984905453978252010-01-27T01:06:30.922-05:002010-01-27T01:06:30.922-05:00What Tolthir said: many times it's not the des...What Tolthir said: many times it's not the designers who limit content or challenge ('tho unfortunatelly it happens more and more) but _players_ themselves for going the max xp/rep/gear / hr invested route.<br /><br />I see the root of the problem in the level-based systems used in the majority of the games. Only if designers would get rid of this extremely flawed and rigid system and implement non-linear character progression then we could at least enable those players to set challenges for themselves what and when they deem appropriate without bounding them in an artificial structure.Kennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06250677802223077326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3352155589322140093.post-33852781248054799462010-01-27T00:19:55.137-05:002010-01-27T00:19:55.137-05:00Great post, and from a gameplay perspective I tota...Great post, and from a gameplay perspective I totally agree.<br /><br />Here the problem though: Some players aren't interested in MMOs as "games" in the traditional sense and don't want to be challenged. So how do you design a game to appeal both to players who like increasing challenge and to those who don't?<br /><br />I think ultimately the solution is to relax constraints like level requirements (so players have the freedom to take on challenges if they want to) and to change the risk-reward structure (so players have an incentive to take on challenges). So far themepark MMOs haven't managed to do this well.Tolthirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08186401981818820178noreply@blogger.com